Amanda ([info]aslanscountry) wrote,
@ 2009-11-10 00:52:00
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Where the hell are my pajamas??
This is a very messy and unfinished response to my giant love for Mad Men and my equal giant love for writing about Asperger's. I feel like usually when someone says that they think a fictional character has Asperger's, other people will try to get in an argument about whether this is 100% accurate or not. I don't really think this is important. I have Asperger's and I relate to Peggy and Pete, and I think anyone who watches the show would agree that both characters have to learn how to do social things that other people do naturally. That's all.

So, brought to you by my tendency to make up academic-sounding titles for really geeked-out disorganized rambling:

Stop barging in here and infecting me with your anxiety: Pete, Peggy, and Passing

Peggy: Well, one day you’re there and then all of a sudden there’s less of you. And you wonder where that part went, if it’s living somewhere outside of you, and you keep thinking maybe you’ll get it back. And then you realize, it’s just gone.
Pete: Why would you tell me that?
--Mad Men 2x13, "Meditations in an Emergency"

I read this really beautiful post on Basket of Kisses that basically discusses the idea that Pete Campbell is (or is supposed to be) an s/m switch. And he lives in a world where there’s no room for being that kind of weird, so it comes out of him in messy, negative ways; he can’t learn control. The reason this was such a beautiful post is because it didn’t look at the show through the lens of period. Or, maybe, because it didn’t have this idea that certain things that are innate in some people, like s/m, are just a trend or a fad and therefore couldn’t really have existed in the 60s--because it realized that all kinds of minority experiences can be period, even if they weren’t recognized at the time. I would like to talk about something else that is innate in some people--Asperger’s Syndrome. I don’t like to use that term because it’s a bit reductive and calls up a lot of stereotypes; I would rather just say, I’m talking about verbal people with autism spectrum disorder.

Because Asperger’s has been portrayed in recent high-profile movies and books, it is popular to say that it is new or made up, but really autism spectrum disorders have always been around, just not identified. At the time the show takes place, a nonverbal ASD person would have been diagnosed with a mental disability and probably put in an institution, just like Arthur Miller’s son with Down’s Syndrome was in 1966. A verbal ASD person would have just been thought of as odd or annoying. But that doesn’t mean that, inherently, objectively, that’s all they were. Not having a name for what you are doesn’t make what you are go away, as Sal Romano unfortunately learned.

I read Peggy Olson and Pete Campbell as people with ASD. Because they live in a time when they can’t know what they are, each of them is a type of ASD person that should never exist:

Peggy forces herself to do what’s normal, and usually her perseverance pays off and she gets what she wants, but it also means that she is constantly acting. And also, although she may do all right in the short run, the people who see her every day know she is different and she doesn’t really have any true friends (except maybe Don--big surprise that he would feel connected to someone like her).

Instead of fighting his difference like Peggy does, Pete ignores it; because he doesn’t try to be normal, he gets to be more carefree, but he is hobbled by the fact that most people can’t stand his raw guilelessness, which affects him both personally and professionally.

Guileless may seem like a weird word because Pete is so manipulative--but he isn’t actually good at it, is he? Really, setting the two up as opposites is not correct, because Pete tries to do what’s normal too, but with a lot less awareness and determination than Peggy. People say that Pete is like a robot but I don’t see it at all--his boundless confusion is written all over his face. That’s why he’s always throwing things and punching people, it’s why he doesn’t really understand sex, because he is so full of a feeling of powerlessness, and he doesn’t know why.

Let’s talk about hunting. Obviously this is about s/m, whatever you want to call it; Pete gives Peggy a lingering description of killing a deer, carving it up, and taking it to a woman who cooks it for him and watches him eat it, while Peggy listens shivering with delight. But I don’t think it’s just about s/m. Pete doesn’t understand how to do things, he doesn’t understand his life, so he bought a gun to make himself feel better; but he doesn’t live in prehistoric times where he can just prove himself by killing something. He has to do things right, he has to be likable. This seems like a huge mountain to scale for a person like Pete, and he can’t take it, so he thinks about something else instead: a world where all he has to do to be loved is to accomplish a physical act. Where he has a very specific role. And Peggy, who is screwing up all over the place too, is also thrilled by Pete’s fantasy. She doesn’t have to lie, she doesn’t have to dress a certain way; she has a very clear, uncomplicated submissive role as the deer/cook.

This can also be seen when they have sex in the next episode. They’re just two people early at work, and then they create this space between them where it is okay to fuck up, to want too much--Pete hisses creepily, “Do you know how hard it is to see you walking around?” as if he owns her, just as obsessive and needy as taking two trains to drunkenly lean on her door. Pete has gone too far with girls before and he will again, but here, when he pulls Peggy’s hair and tears her shirt, he gets a positive reaction instead of a negative one. Because he doesn’t feel inadequate like he usually does, he’s much sweeter in this scene than he is with other people. He thinks about her feelings about her writing that he was supposed to read; she grumpily says “I know what you’re going to say” and he says “no, you don’t; you haven’t been right once” with a lot of affection. Pete never knows what people are going to say either. Peggy, who is always so tense and ineffective, is very serious and brutal when they have sex, and then afterwards when she does that incredibly cute incredibly awkward thing where she touches his hair--ohhh man. Okay this is not an essay anymore it is just a geekout.

The s/m essay interprets Pete’s rejection of Peggy at the end of that episode as showing that he is threatened by her power and assertiveness, because he is kind of turned on by it and doesn’t know what to make of it. I’m not sure I would say that; it seems to be taking that scene out of the context of the episode. Pete feels powerless and he doesn’t exactly understand why, but the truth is, it’s because he’s weird/off/whatever you want to call it, and everyone thinks he is slimy, and he doesn’t understand how to get what he wants. And he feels like Trudy is trying to control him (I love Trudy, more on this later, but I’m just saying that’s how he feels). I think that when Pete is overwhelmed by how much he can’t seem to do things right, he takes it out on people less powerful than he is. And also, I think there may be a bit of a betrayal, because when they had the hunting talk, and then when they slept together, those were both very weird outsider bonding sessions. Now Peggy has succeeded at something and is cheerfully doing the Twist; she seems normal and is asking Pete to do something normal with her. The way Pete sits in this scene is striking; I’ve experienced this myself, that when I am made very conscious of my difference, or when I am overwhelmed, I try to calm myself with these very stiff postures, things like wrists out, or ankles turned out. Pete is very prone to these tense little gestures and he is doing it here. He says “I don’t like you like this” partly because he wants to make someone, anyone, feel bad. But it’s also true; he liked Peggy because she was his home, a person he could make this tiny strange-person world with. Of course, Peggy still did want to make that world with him, he just couldn’t see it.

One of the most upsetting things about the way Pete treats Peggy is that he seems to forget they have the same problem. When he freaks out about her promotion, or snits, “Everything is so easy for you,” there’s the obvious dramatic irony that he got her pregnant and she had to deal with that while he remained blissfully ignorant. But there’s also the fact that Pete knows firsthand that it is hard to get anything if you’re the kind of person that other people just don’t like. Peggy works so hard; she is always changing, always moving forward. She takes Joan’s advice about changing the way she dresses and she lets Kurt cut her hair. When she feels her coworkers are leaving her out of things, she tries to figure out how to fix the problem, unlike Pete, who just complains and bullies women when he feels left out. Whether or not she has said it in words, Peggy knows she has trouble (and this isn’t just about being a woman in a man’s world, because she had trouble even when she was a secretary) and she tries to improve herself. Pete isn’t self-aware enough to try to fix his impairments, except very occasionally, like when he goes to Don after his father dies.

The thing is, Peggy is a person to root for but I’m not sure I want to be her. Her accomplishments are always about winning, getting some particular thing. I think an ASD person who is incredibly focused on looking normal as a means to an end sometimes ends up with a life that is fairly empty. Of course I love the two recent episodes that involve Peggy learning a social script, experimenting with it, and getting what she aims for--first a one-night stand, and then a roommate. When Peggy dourly intoned, “I’m...fun...and I like to have...fun,” and Libby Dreifuss actually bought that Peggy was a normal girl, I felt the same rush I have felt in real life, when I’m incredibly conscious that I’m faking, but I somehow slide under the radar and am not perceived as odd. But the rush of putting one over on people can’t be your whole life. And Peggy ends up not really being friends with the guys at work, sleeping with a guy she can’t face the next morning, and living with someone she has nothing in common with. This is success?

More and more, I’m finding I want to be Pete. Not early Pete, of course; he’s horrible. But at some point between seasons two and three, Pete realized how incredibly smart and cool Trudy is and started opening up to her the way he’d previously only opened up to Peggy and sometimes Don. When Pete talks to Peggy after they have sex, in 1x08, he says “Trudy and I are supposed to be one person, but she’s just another stranger,” and when he’s confessing his love to Peggy, in 2x13, he says that Trudy would care if he died, but it doesn’t matter, because she doesn’t know him. But it’s Pete’s fault that Trudy doesn’t know him, of course, and after Peggy lets him down, he must grow up a little, because in season three the Campbells are more and more partners in crime.

Pete presumably reeled Trudy in with his smarmy anachronistic scripting (and what better evidence do you need of ASD than Pete’s endless supply of exclamations and terms of endearment that are just slightly off for a person of his time, age, and gender?). Then, he exploded a bunch of times, with the turkey, and the trying to whore her out to publish his bear story (oh Pete how I love you), and “WHY ARE YOU COMING TO MY OFFICE? WHAT WILL PEOPLE THINK??” so Trudy figured out pretty early on that Pete was a really strange and really immature person--but okay, I’ll allow that this doesn’t mean she knows him. Usually the worst part of someone is the part you find out last, but it doesn’t have to be that way, and Trudy obviously doesn’t understand in season one and two the relationship that Pete has with his parents, and she hasn’t really connected with the good parts of his immaturity, the sometimes uncontainable energy and excitement. But in the first episode of season three, we get “Oh Peter, don’t go to the well; there’s no water there,” when Pete wants to call his mother, and a few episodes later we see the two of them pooling their manic energy into the BEST DANCING EVER.

I think it would be disingenuous to say that Pete didn’t rape Gudrun midway through season three. I mean, he does have trouble reading people, but I think his issue is sometimes that he knows people don’t like him and want him to go away, and he doesn’t want to think about it, so he doesn’t put in the effort to read them better; so maybe he didn’t want to think about what he was doing, but the fact that he didn’t think about it is not an excuse. I think it’s important to acknowledge what he did. But what’s notable for my purposes is what he does afterward, when he tells Trudy he doesn’t want her to go away without him anymore. Some feminist bloggers read that as Pete blaming Trudy for what he did, but I think that’s an overly harsh characterization of a really important and positive decision. Throughout this essay, I have emphasized how Pete isn’t aware of his impairments like Peggy is and how this both gets in his way professionally and leads to him hurting other people. When Pete said that Trudy shouldn’t go away from him anymore, I think he was saying that he knows he isn’t capable of making good decisions at this point, and he wants her to be his moral compass, at least for a while. And it is doing a disservice to Trudy to say that her pleased reaction was delusional, like she thought Pete was declaring his undying need to be around her at all times. Trudy is a practical person and, because she does know Pete much better than she used to, she understood why it was a big step forward for him to a)feel guilty, b)want to be better, and c)ask for her help.

Throughout season three we see Trudy giving Pete advice and talking about his decisions with him. This is one of the few really equal and honest relationships we see on the show and it makes me happy that Pete, despite all the issues he still has, has grown enough that he can have this relationship. Because of his relationship with Trudy, I’ve started to see Pete as more successful than Peggy, even though Peggy tries to be normal a lot more. The thing about Pete is that, now that he has finally started to change, he’s not changing in the direction of being normal, but of being good.

When you are ASD it’s all very nice to say that you just want to understand people and be more sensitive to them, but when you really start trying to manage your ASD, it usually just becomes about not wanting people to bully you, and being able to have a normal time making friends, and just fit in. But Pete’s recent spate of self-correcting (apologizing to Hildy about the hot cocoa, keeping himself under control when Kenny and his haircut triumphed once again, and of course the thing with Trudy) has been more about being kind, not yelling at people or exploiting the fact that they’re weaker than he is. That means that, while Pete’s self-awareness has been a long time coming, it looks to be an awareness that will make him more whole. While Peggy’s self-awareness, the awareness of a person who is trying to pass at all costs, is tearing her apart.



(28 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]portiaslegacy
2009-11-10 05:08 am UTC (link)
Thank you for writing this. Like you I am also diagnosed with Asperger's and trying to figure out what that means. I do not feel qualified to diagnose anyone real or fictional with Asperger's, but I agree with your interpretations of the characters' behavior. Pete being oblivious, Peggy's over compensation at passing. And I get that exhilarating and dread filled feeling when I can pass. The behavior you mentioned is all stuff that I feel I have done, and probably has to do with why they are my faves on the show (also why I was disappointed with Peggy's story line this year)

I have started a questionnaire on my journal about Asperger's. I would appreciate it if you and some NTs passing through here responded to it.

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[info]aslanscountry
2009-11-10 08:02 am UTC (link)
cool thanks for commenting! I'll do your questionnaire. I don't know if anyone else is looking at this post except you though. :)

What was the thing you didn't like about Peggy's storyline this year? I mean I've gotten to like her less, but I think that might just be because I've gotten to like Pete so much I don't have room to like anyone else.

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[info]portiaslegacy
2009-11-10 01:50 pm UTC (link)
I guess I just wanted more for her. Her storyline seemed kind of static this year, especially when it came to having an affair with Duck. She did not have much of an idea about exploring the world around her or picking a cause and fighting for it. After Meditations in an Emergency I thought "maybe she really wants to have someone to speak to whom she can trust to listen in a non-judgement way. There was none of that

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[info]falafel_musings
2009-11-10 02:25 pm UTC (link)
Brilliant essay. I really appreciated the depth of your opinions and I honestly agree with everything you have said.

Guileless may seem like a weird word because Pete is so manipulative--but he isn’t actually good at it, is he?

THIS. I think Pete is actually incapable of being truly machiavellian. He doesn't have the emotional intelligence to read people properly and that is essential to being successfully manipulative. Plus, I don't credit Pete for really thinking things through. Pete is a person who (as Don observes) wants everything the minute he wants it. He doesn't wait and plan. He goes at everything like a bull in a china shop. Pete lives in the moment and he says whatever is in his head, without thinking if he should say it or if he is making a fool of himself. I think that makes him pretty guileless too.

he liked Peggy because she was his home, a person he could make this tiny strange-person world with

I have the exact same reading of Pete's feelings towards Peggy, why he bonded with her and felt that she was the only person who really knew him. I've also been struck by Peggy and Pete's mirroring social struggles. I felt like they came together as misfits and that's how they related to each other. I'd not really considered ASD but that is a valid reading and something that would have gone undiagnosed and gained them no understanding in that time peroid. It reminds me of Suzanne's brother saying he's afflicted and that at a certain point people figure out that there is something wrong with him. I think people perhaps have a similar social discomfort towards Pete and Peggy. With Peggy it is more subtle, but with the way she is often left out of office socialising and mocked for her ungainly attempts to get a roommate, it is definitely there.

With Pete I've often felt that he has some sort of cognitive behavioural problem. I'm not sure how I would define it but it's a big problem for him and for other people who he "infects with his anxiety". I think from what we've seen of Pete's parents it can be assumed that Pete's childhood was somewhat emotionally damaging. His parents are openly cold and contemptuous towards him. They haven't provided him with enough nurture to grow, so Pete remains in this immature state of arrested development. Pete's parents have instilled him with a sense of entitlement, but at the same time they have judged him to be an unworthy disappointment to the family name. So Pete is in this weird headspace where he is led to believe he deserves everything while also being told that nothing he does is good enough. I think the main thing Pete wanted from his parents was love and respect, not power. That is the main thing that drives Pete now.

she understood why it was a big step forward for him to a)feel guilty, b)want to be better, and c)ask for her help.

I agree completely with your reading of the Pete/Trudy scenes in the Souvenir episode. Going back to Pete's parents, I think Pete has now transfered his needs for love and respect onto surrogate parent figures, in an attempt to overcome his problems. After Pete's father died he immediately started looking to Don and Duck as substitute father figures; both older superior men who Pete hoped to impress. Pete has settled on Don as his preferred father figure even though Don actually gives Pete a harder time than Duck. I think Pete has recognised that Don's harshness is character-building for him; Don gives him goals to work towards and it makes Pete achieve more. Duck will sing Pete's praises more readily but that praise usually comes with a manipulative purpose, like Duck wanting to use Pete's family tragedy to snag a big account.

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[info]falafel_musings
2009-11-10 02:25 pm UTC (link)
I think the Trudy's line about Pete's mother; "Don't go to the well. There's no water there" shows that Trudy has, consciously or unconsciously, accepted the role of Pete's substitute mother figure. Trudy herself has very loving parents and I think recognising that Pete doesn't has inspired a lot of sympathy in her. And I'm sure Trudy gets something out of using Pete as a substitute child too, since we know Trudy wants children and can't have them. The Campbells are both fulfilling each other's emotional needs and that is why their relationship is working so well right now. I definitely see Pete asking Trudy to be his moral compass as a positive step. The moment in the last episode when Trudy called out to Pete when he was threatening to blow off Don & Roger showed that she has literally become a voice of reason for Pete who so often ruins things for himself with his petulance.

The thing about Pete is that, now that he has finally started to change, he’s not changing in the direction of being normal, but of being good.

I would argue that Peggy unlike Pete has a fairly good moral compass to begin with. But she still seems prone to walking into situations and relationships that are bad for her. There is the character trait that she "always picks the wrong boys" and asks Kurt what is wrong with her. Peggy has a strong platonic bond with Don (which had been very strained until the last episode) but her romantic relationships and her relationships with other women are always problematic. I agree that instead of resolving her problems Peggy pours everything she has into her work and hopes that career success and acceptance will cure her personal problems too. Unlike Pete who could be working towards recovery, I don't think Peggy has yet found a solution to her own dysfunctions.

Phew! Long comment. Your essay was very inspiring.

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[info]aslanscountry
2009-11-10 04:35 pm UTC (link)
Thank you so much for writing so much! I'm kind of starstruck that you read this because I have your "giant Pete-spam" post bookmarked and sometimes I read it when I'm sad. It's really an awesomely concentrated piece of Pete goodness.

You're right about Peggy's moral compass. Actually I think Pete's becoming more human and Peggy's becoming less, but I didn't really know how to write about that because I was setting them up as being basically the same in terms of their impairments, when it's really a lot more complicated than that.

So Pete is in this weird headspace where he is led to believe he deserves everything while also being told that nothing he does is good enough.

Yes! Exactly!

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[info]falafel_musings
2009-11-10 06:18 pm UTC (link)
Awww. Thanks. The Pete-spam seems incomplete now. There were many moments I missed and now a host of S3 moments I would add. I should do a sequel post.

Want to friend? I've a lot more Mad Men posts on my journal but most of them are F-locked.

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[info]aslanscountry
2009-11-10 06:44 pm UTC (link)
YES, do a sequel, I'd be so excited. This episode was the most delightful with the kissing and "where the hell are my pajamas?" and "I'm not really sick," and Harry: So, why are you here? Pete: Um....work. It's actually hard to remember anything adorable Pete has done this season because everything he did in 3x13 eclipsed it (except for the Charleston).
and YES. I was really sad when I first read the Pete-spam and then couldn't find that many more Mad Men posts. I'm glad to know you've written them, I just couldn't see them.

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[info]falafel_musings
2009-11-10 08:45 pm UTC (link)
Friended! Yeah, I just F-lock everything these days. I'm just scared of strangers. I've written reviews of every MM episode in S3 and made some fanvids so there's lots there if you're interested.

My favourite Pete moment in S3 was possibly the elevator scene with Hollis where we see Pete outrageously poor social skills in all their glory and in the end they share smiles over baseball.

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[info]aslanscountry
2009-11-11 02:15 pm UTC (link)
hi, I just wondered if you had friended me yet because I keep trying to read your Mad Men posts and I never can and it's sad times :(

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[info]falafel_musings
2009-11-11 10:19 pm UTC (link)
*palms face* I thought I had friended. Clearly I did it wrong.

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[info]aslanscountry
2009-11-11 10:35 pm UTC (link)
hooray I'm so excited!

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[info]lucullean
2009-11-10 03:55 pm UTC (link)
i am so, so, so in love with you. also this essay, while insightful, is also hot.

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[info]aslanscountry
2009-11-10 04:36 pm UTC (link)
yeah I think I got overexcited when I was talking about the hair-pulling.

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[info]ohwaluvusbab
2009-11-11 07:12 am UTC (link)
I think there may be a bit of a betrayal, because when they had the hunting talk, and then when they slept together, those were both very weird outsider bonding sessions. Now Peggy has succeeded at something and is cheerfully doing the Twist; she seems normal and is asking Pete to do something normal with her.

THIS. THIS SO MUCH. This is *exactly* what I thought on *first viewing*. And then I was corrected by others that no, Pete just wants to control Peggy because he's scum.

I haven't been diagnosed or anything, but I'm fairly sure I have several Aspergers' tendencies, which may explain why I have always, always found Pete disturbingly easy to identify with. ('Disturbingly?' See 'scum' reason.)
Anyhow, I do think he and Peggy are the most intriguing characters on the show, precisely because they are damn weird.

*loves your post*

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[info]ohwaluvusbab
2009-11-11 07:18 am UTC (link)
Um, over here from the the Mad Men comm btw.

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[info]aslanscountry
2009-11-11 09:04 am UTC (link)
yeah I don't think Pete is scum. Or a robot, or a sociopath, or whatever else people say. I know he was/is a bad person, but I still kind of love him (and I find the robot thing especially confusing, because he's so emotional).

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[info]ohwaluvusbab
2009-11-12 01:23 am UTC (link)
I've never come across this 'robot' argument, but it sounds baffling. The emotional thing would also rule out sociopath. And this is Mad Men. No one on this show, except maybe Peggy, can be classified as a 'good person' ;) It is a large part of what makes the show fabulous.

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[info]aslanscountry
2009-11-12 08:55 am UTC (link)
Peggy used to be a good person, she's not anymore.

but, yeah: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nobodyssweetheart/2883791741/

sorry about dollhouse by the way, I just heard.

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[info]ohwaluvusbab
2009-11-13 01:03 am UTC (link)
Hmm. Yes, I agree that Peggy has started to become 'less human'. We'll see though. I think this new business will be good for her. She might become closer with Joan and Pete and co.

That picture. *rolls eyes* To be frank, I don't think that people's dislike of Pete is because he is inauthentic/artificial. Everyone on this show is playing roles. Pete is more unlikeable to people because he's not good at playing the game. Every other character is at least halfway adept at hiding their flaws, whereas Pete is for the most part, socially inept.

sorry about dollhouse by the way

Yes. It is a shame.

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[info]aslanscountry
2009-11-13 08:39 am UTC (link)
yeah, Pete doesn't actually do worse things than other people, he just does them more weirdly! It's not really fair that people hate him so much.

I read this post yesterday that was called "Fuck Pete Campbell." It was about how the poster had trouble watching Mad Men because they were a person of color, and that they had gotten to really hate Pete because they thought he was like the epitome of white privilege...which is fine, that's an understandable reaction, but why Pete in particular? What about "Fuck Roger Sterling"? He's just as privileged; actually more so. I think I'm the only person on the planet who doesn't like Roger. And he does, I think, every single bad thing Pete has done.

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[info]ohwaluvusbab
2009-11-14 06:42 am UTC (link)
It was about how the poster had trouble watching Mad Men because they were a person of color, and that they had gotten to really hate Pete because they thought he was like the epitome of white privilege.

Honestly, I find this preposterous. Particularly since Pete appears to be the least discriminatory of all of them. It stuns me how a viewer can completely miss the point of Pete's character. Yes, he was born into privilege. This is his curse. The crux of Pete's character is that he is trapped in the box that others - and, evidently, portions of the audience - have put him in.

Yeah, I am 100% certain that every shitty thing Pete has done, the other guys have too, or at least are equally capable. In many ways, Pete really highlights the bullshit behaviour of everyone else. The irony is that Pete, essentially, spends every minute of his life taking cues from the rest of them. An even bigger irony is that many viewers don't understand this at all.

More importantly, Mad Men is not the show to be getting on one's soapbox of moral righteousness about. Judging the characters through a 2009 lens is a pretty useless way to enjoy the show, IMHO.

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[info]aslanscountry
2009-11-14 10:09 am UTC (link)
I don't know, I mean I'm white so I feel like it's not really my place to say how people who aren't white should feel; I don't know if I would enjoy watching the show if I wasn't white. And I think that having a lot of privilege and being really unhappy about it is sometimes hard to sympathize with if you don't have privilege. For example, as a gay person I tend to get pretty bored when straight people complain about how hard it is being straight.

Also (I think I wrote about this a bit in the original post, or intended to) it's interesting to think about how different Asperger's looks in different people. For example with women you can't really tell. It seems pretty likely to me that this is because society comes down harder on women who have bad social skills. And it's probably the same with people of color. I mean, Pete's life is crappy now, but if he was a black guy in the 60s with the kind of social skills and temper he has, his family would probably be scared that something would happen to him; like, something violent. (I also think that they'd have more of a sense of him having a disability, even if they didn't call him that. I wonder if he would be sort of a family responsibility, like "shit, who's going to take care of Pete now that so-and-so died.") The way I'm writing this essay comes off as a little anti-Peggy, but of course it's totally not her fault. Peggy would have been fired if she acted like Pete. Peggy sure doesn't have the option of muddling around until she meets a nice guy who will devote all his energy to managing her social impairments.

When Pete feels powerless he kicks around women. When Peggy feels powerless--well, she better find another outlet, because she doesn't have anyone to kick around.

I hope it doesn't come off like I'm saying this all in response to what you said, and trying to correct your reaction or something--I just started thinking about it while I was typing. To be honest I do feel personally hurt when I see all this "fuck Pete Campbell" stuff, or just sort of this attitude that guys who pretty clearly have some kind of social impairment are just The Oppressors, and there can't be any more to them than that. I remember seeing this a few years ago in a post about RealDolls. The guy the article was about clearly suffered from a lot of social anxiety that made it hard for him to handle relationships (or even find them), but everyone on this blog was just like "oh, he hates women, he thinks women are untrustworthy." I love Pete, very much, probably more than someone should love a fictional character. I don't want to ignore his privilege but I don't think it's fair to ignore the fact that he has lower status as a disabled person, whether or not other characters consciously perceive him that way.

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[info]ohwaluvusbab
2009-11-14 10:59 pm UTC (link)
Interesting thoughts.

I think that having a lot of privilege and being really unhappy about it is sometimes hard to sympathize with if you don't have privilege.

Yes, I understand this. Still, it strikes me as a fairly narrow-minded way to look at the world. Especially with a work of fiction. The way I see Mad Men is that it's a way to try and understand people you wouldn't have a chance to in real life. But I get that it can be difficult to separate one's personal issues from that. (I am a person of colour, btw.)

The way I'm writing this essay comes off as a little anti-Peggy, but of course it's totally not her fault.

No, don't worry.

I don't want to ignore his privilege but I don't think it's fair to ignore the fact that he has lower status as a disabled person, whether or not other characters consciously perceive him that way.

Judging from what we've seen of his family, Pete, to me, is a classic example of a person who has grown up in the absence of love and belonging. If, as a child, you feel like an outsider in your own family, it would only follow that you wouldn't be able to relate with other people in healthy ways. That's why I think Trudy is good for Pete - she's really the first person to teach him how to give and receive love. I think Pete is definitely capable of positive personal growth.

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[info]aslanscountry
2009-11-15 12:06 am UTC (link)
oh cool, thanks for assuaging my white guilt. Which I know is really flippant, but I just keep reading comments saying that only white people watch Mad Men and then I feel bad about thinking it's THE BEST SHOW EVER and trying to get everyone in the world to watch it, because it's not really THE BEST SHOW EVER if it's alienating to people who aren't white. I don't feel alienated because there aren't lesbians in the show, but I thought maybe that was different.

Trudy is the best. I haven't been able to rewatch "Souvenir" because I was just so upset at Pete, but I might soon, just to see his reaction when Trudy kisses him. Do you think, maybe it didn't even really occur to him that he would even want to be loyal to her, he just thought it was something that society expected from him, and he didn't even know that his feelings had changed until he had that reaction when she kissed him? I didn't have that many normal person emotional reactions until I was in my teens, and whenever they happened, I would always be really surprised like they came from somewhere outside me.

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[info]ohwaluvusbab
2009-11-16 12:49 am UTC (link)
because it's not really THE BEST SHOW EVER if it's alienating to people who aren't white.

I don't think anyone should ever feel like they have to apologise about where they come from. I think a show like Mad Men is successful because it resonates with people regardless of status, race, etc. It's about people. And we're all people, after all.

Do you think, maybe it didn't even really occur to him that he would even want to be loyal to her, he just thought it was something that society expected from him

Absolutely. Actually, regarding society's expectations - I think Pete has this belief that to be successful in life, he has to be like people like Don and Roger. He thinks that being in a position of power and having everyone fear you and women fawn over you = happiness. (Ironically, Don and Roger have that, and are miserable.) I think this view is starting to shift though, and I'm actually glad that the au pair incident happened, as discomfiting as it was, because it was a huge wake-up call for Pete.

I didn't have that many normal person emotional reactions until I was in my teens, and whenever they happened, I would always be really surprised like they came from somewhere outside me.

Heh. I'm pretty sure I still don't always have 'normal person emotional reactions'. What is a 'normal person' anyway ;/ Anyhow, I think that's a good way to describe Pete's remorse in Souvenir.

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[info]aslanscountry
2009-11-16 12:04 pm UTC (link)
I guess, things like immediately having this across-the-board reaction with vocal tone, facial expression, and emotion when someone else is in pain. I don't like to perpetuate the "ASD people don't care about other people" thing, but at the same time, I can't remember reacting to other people's emotions when I was younger. Although I guess maybe I just couldn't sense them. And I feel like Pete just doesn't sense them. Not really. There are some scenes in S2 where he makes a comment about something Peggy is feeling and it's just such a surprise that he noticed, that he put in so much effort.

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[info]ohwaluvusbab
2009-11-16 01:49 pm UTC (link)
There are some scenes in S2 where he makes a comment about something Peggy is feeling and it's just such a surprise that he noticed, that he put in so much effort.

I tend to think that Pete and Peggy are weirdly attuned to each other. Then again, I could just be being sentimental ;)

It's difficult to tell with the 'empathy' thing. Honestly, I think 90% of a person's emotional reactions is social conditioning.

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